If I was king......

"George McNally" (georgemcnally) 11/01/2013 at 21:09 • Filed to: None

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-We would have graduated licenses. I'd have Junior, Senior (which is what most folks would have) and Advanced which would preclude the license holder having to take numerous driving skills tests. I'd let advance license holders drive at 85mph on Interstates. Not sure how I would implement this...maybe color coded license plates?

-Getting caught drunk driving (.08 or over) would mean lose of license....permanently. No exceptions.

I'd outlaw police using radar,laser, ROBIC, planes, etc. If you wanna catch me speeding-pace me for a 1/4 mile.

-I'd make using the left lane for anything other than passing a felony.

Maybe the last one is a bit over the top....but getting stuck behind some jackwagon going 1 mile an hour over the speed limit in the left lane is getting old.

TSLA > George McNally 11/01/2013 at 21:12

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We should make a whitehouse petition for the tiered license idea.
I don't see why anyone would think it was a bad idea.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > George McNally 11/01/2013 at 21:15

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Since the only qualification for getting a license in the US is to breathe and have enough credit to get something from the local Last Chance Car Lot, just about anything would be better.

But you will get people screaming about disenfranchising people who cannot control a car very well. Because they have to get around too. And it cannot be more expensive (Can't afford the licensing? Why are you driving? Can't afford to maintain your car to TUV standards? Why are you on the road?), or else someone will whine about it incessantly.

It's a problem where there are no buses or trains.

dogisbadob > George McNally 11/01/2013 at 21:16

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Would Junior and Senior mean the same thing they do like in current teen restricted license rules we have now? Because that can still be part of it, right?

Advance license holders could be unlimited, Senior 85, junior 65?

All would be harder to get though, right?

Dunnik > George McNally 11/01/2013 at 21:20

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If I was king, I would outlaw CUV's that have a higher risk of roll-over (RAV4, RVR, Jeep Compass, Jeep Patriot, etc.) and would require that anyone wanting to operate a full-sized SUV demonstrate that they need it for a legitimate reason (towing, work-related, live in the middle of nowhere, etc.).

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > dogisbadob 11/01/2013 at 21:20

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I personally want it to be more expensive. Like a few thousand dollars to get licensed. See, every driver's handbook in the US says driving is a privilege. But everyone treats driving as a *right*.

So which is it? If it's a privilege, then what's wrong with requiring, say, MORE training than is needed to get, say, a concealed carry permit? It's arguable that your car is a much deadlier weapon than a pistol (Mass, has lots of gasoline/diesel on board, mass, velocity, MASS)

I'd then put a restriction on the fuel tax that it has to be used for roads. No more using fuel tax to pay for mass transit and bike paths to nowhere. Upgrade the rural interstates.

Then we can use this

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Dunnik 11/01/2013 at 21:23

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If we live in the middle of nowhere, do we get a slightly less awful category for having a regular pickup instead of an SUV? And a second car for things that don't require the truck?

Because Pickup is more capable than SUV, and second car means not always driving the 1/2-ton pickup.

dogisbadob > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 11/01/2013 at 21:24

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It doesn't need to be more expensive, just more demanding. If, for example, they can put together a good, comprehensive course for $600, that should work.

I definitely agree on the fuel tax for the road thing though!

I would like to see weight-based and fuel economy-based registration fees though. For example, $10-15 per year for a subcompact 30+ mpg, $100 for a 20-mpg midsizer, and four digits for 3-ton 10-mpg blotto SUV's

davedave1111 > George McNally 11/01/2013 at 21:31

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If you set the speed limits right, there's no reason not to allow police to use everything they can to catch speeders. If they're wrong, then being able to break them if you know just how to work the system isn't really a good solution.

I wouldn't begin to suggest it's the general rule, but I can think of a handful of well-placed speed cameras I've encountered. When they're in the right place, and clearly marked, they're a good thing.

A couple of examples:

One is at the end of a bit of dual-carriageway in London at the end of the M4. The road stays three lanes, but is correctly a 30 limit for a short stretch because there's joining traffic from the motorway (which has already slowed down) followed by a sharpish bend which hides a traffic-light-controlled roundabout. It's fine if you know about it, but catches you out if you don't and are going at what seems like a safe speed for the road. Before the camera was there, there'd be regular crashes - at least a couple of times a week. I don't think there have been anything like as many since it went up, because it's easy to see and people slow down to avoid a ticket.

Another is out in the country, on a fast rural A-road - one lane each way, no central divider, but a good road. There's a camera, signposted beforehand and visible for at least half a mile back, just before the one tight bend in ten or twenty miles of road where most people are doing at least the 60mph speed limit. It saved me going off the road the first time I went that way, I'm sure.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Dunnik 11/01/2013 at 21:31

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I would let people buy those vehicles they want as it's no different from people buying "sporty" cars and sedans despite doing nothing more than driving like a jackass on occasion.

HOWEVER! You need to know how to park and drive with them to be able to get one and attaching anymore than the little u-haul box or a popup camper will require additional licensing. I'm so sick of people towing a massive fifth wheel on their super-dirty while weaving around and taking up a lane and a half because they either lack confidence or have no clue.

Anon > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 11/01/2013 at 21:32

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The last bit is a very good point. I lived in a very spaced out comunity. If you lose your drivers liscense, you're good as dead.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > dogisbadob 11/01/2013 at 21:33

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Only disagree with you on the registration scheme. $1000+ for a 6000lb vehicle that gets <18MPG would be particularly hard on businesses.

I would prefer a weight and mileage system. If you assume the fuel tax takes care of vehicles with crappy mileage (and it does), then weight + mileage is a better way to do it.

No need for GPS units. Submit mileage upon registration and renewal. Your odometer is broken? Flat fee for the average mileage in the jurisdiction. Old car? Antique plates are exempt.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Anon 11/01/2013 at 21:38

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I'd prefer to see more transit vans running people around, but even where I live, relative to the post office town I'm assigned to, and Atlanta, it's no where near walkable. Heck, it takes 5 minutes to get out to the main road, where there would logically be a bus stop, and that's with driving.

Now if you got people to ride bicycles (and companies provided facilities for showering and such for riders), that would be less of an impact. But you can only fit 3-4 bikes on one of those bus bike racks.

It's an annoying problem.

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 11/01/2013 at 21:44

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Also about learning how to drive, the vehicles should not be limited to easy to drive, automatic equipped econo-boxes.
say a few stick shift cars, and maybe even a "high performance" (I'm talking v6 Camaro or mustang) car or two
also they should learn with few to no electronic aids, on a controlled course, before being let out on to a public road.
foul weather training should be part of the course as well (not including winter in areas where it doesn't snow much)
Also, I believe fewer lanes would be a better option.
3 lanes each way sounds good
far right for semis, motorhomes, and any vehicle hauling more than a 2000 lb trailer should be in this lane, and should only rarely use the middle lane to overtake.
middle lane for general traffic flow, and overtaking from the far right lane.
the far left would be the "mr. bombastic" lane. for those who like to cannonball down the freeway at 110+ mph. also, if someone's faster than you, move over!
I think this would be a good system

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > davedave1111 11/01/2013 at 21:45

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If you set the speed limits right, there's no reason not to allow police to use everything they can to catch speeders.

Assumption: Speed Limits are set with traffic safety in mind, as opposed to say, revenue generation.

This assumption is false in the United States. In fact, the converse is true:

Assumption (For US only): Revenue Generation is what sets the speed limit for a given stretch of road.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > TSLA 11/01/2013 at 21:53

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It's a great idea for both cars and guns. I've said I have no issues with people being able to buy "assault" styled rifles if they show they can fire and maintain them in a rational way. Handguns are often the weapon of choice for crime and self-defense anyways so all I ask is that you prove you are competent enough at the gun range to not hurt or kill anyone else if you own one (which I HAVE heard some horror stories about....) But of course if I had my way all gun owners would have to do an hour or so "retest" no matter what gun(s) they choose to be licesned in just so that the paperwork gets run through again and any criminal offenses/mental issues might pop up. I don't know if a yearly retest for cars will work out so well, but definitely we need something similar to catch the seniors who can't see or think properly, the skittish teenagers who still didn't learn and are now buying large cars and SUVs, and in general people who just don't learn.

They way I see it you have a basic license which lets you buy/operate your standard cars and sedans and you are retested every 3 or 4 years. You also are forced to take a retest after being declared at fault in an accident if you want your license back. You also need to pass "inclement weather training" in the northern half to learn how to deal with snow/icy conditions. Failure to do so means you can't have a valid license in that state.

dogisbadob > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 11/01/2013 at 21:55

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Well of course there could be special rules for businesses and fleets

davedave1111 > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 11/01/2013 at 22:00

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That's not an assumption I made at all. I assumed that when the OP is king, such considerations won't be a factor. Which they're clearly not, since he proposes banning all speed-detection equipment.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > davedave1111 11/01/2013 at 22:14

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But he's not proposing removal of the limit, or adjusting the existing limits.

My point is that the way the limits are set in the US generally do not bear any resemblance to what a traffic engineering study would produce as a limit. Because these limits are artificially low (i.e. set incorrectly), that is what gives rise to the reason from George to restrict the enforcement of those limits to a flying 1/4 mile matched pace.

If they were set correctly (i.e. based on sound engineering principles), two things would be the case

Fewer people speeding

Lower revenue generation from speeding tickets

Since the lower revenue generation is a factor for the political entities who set those limits, it is the case that those considerations tend to drive the limits being set as they are as opposed to setting them based on science.

davedave1111 > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 11/01/2013 at 22:30

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I know he didn't propose changing the limits. I was suggesting something else - a counterproposal. My very first words were 'if you set speed limits right'.